I have been wondering about whether the sun and moon are above or below the firmament. What is the evidence that they are below it, Biblical reference?
First, God created the firmament on Day Two of creation (Genesis 1:6-8). Then, He created the sun, moon, and stars on Day Four of creation and placed them in the firmament of heaven (Genesis 1:14-19). So we can know for sure the luminaries are not above the firmament. I know some people argue that the stars seem to shine through water, therefore they must be above the firmament. This doesn't agree with the testimony of Scripture. However, I believe there is evidence for a superfluid to exist under the firmament, which could explain why the stars appear like reflections of water.
Psalm 19:4-5 provides evidence that the sun is under the firmament, not embedded in it. "In them [the heavens] He [God] has set a tabernacle [firmament] for the sun,
Which is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber."
Since God testifies in Genesis that the luminaries are placed in the firmament, the sun, moon, and stars are all in the same tent. When a person is inside a tabernacle or tent, they are under it not embedded in the material. This is how I understand the Scriptures. Hope that helps.
Agree with that answer by Mischelle. In scripture we see the Firmament is described as “strong as molten metal, as a looking glass” and the root word ‘raqia’ means to beat or stamp out. So the Firmament is the solid dome and the “waters above” from Psalm 148:4 are below this dome and above the aether “atmosphere”. We know amateur rockets hit this water at 74 miles yet the sun and moon are approximately 2-3k miles high as proven with sextant measurements. Check out David wardlaw Scott’s book TERRA FIRMA, and Samuel Robatham’s Zetetic Cosmogony, and another great book is Zetetic Astronomy by Thomas Winship. They provide all the empirical data that refutes all the modern Scientism. Keep in touch as this is my area of interest too and I continue to ponder these great questions and mysteries.
That’s interesting. I hadn’t considered the waters above the firmament as under the firmament. I lean toward a superfluid under and a sea of water above, especially since at the flood, God opened the windows of heaven.
There is so much mystery on this topic since we have so little scriptural information regarding the specifics of the firmament. We know Ezekiel and other prophets describe the firmament as crystaline and blue. “Sea of glass” in revelation 4 and 15 give us a clue that a firm foundation exists. As you stated about the heavens opening and the water flooded through earth, do you believe that water emptied so that now all the water left is what provides a barrier (depicted when rockets either scrape along or impact directly into this region—such as operation Dominic and Fishbowl)? Zen Garcia speaks of a constant flow of water recycling from below earth to the heavens that provides for our weather. I’m rather skeptical about that theory but something supernatural causes our weather opposed to the modern belief in a hydrological cycle
I believe there are still waters above the firmament based on Psalm 148:4. I lean toward the superfluid ceiling under the firmament as the same substance that makes the solid firmament. As you mentioned, there’s much we do not know.
“And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.”
Genesis 1:3-5 KJV
God created light, then He divided the light from the darkness. The light was called Day, and the darkness was called Night. The first day of creation concluded with the first cycle of night to day. With this first act... TIME began. This day/night cycle continued for three more days, at which point the sun, moon and stars were created, and placed “in” the firmament, which was created on Day Two.
By a simple reading of scripture, it seems the day/night (light/darkness) cycle is independent of both the firmament, and the luminaries. Like much of creation, the mechanisms and processes God employs are a mystery. We can be sure, though, that all of creation operates in accordance with the laws of nature and laws of logic. Speculating whether the firmament moves or just APPEARS to move or doesn’t move at all, is probably a foolish endeavor. Ask Job how he felt after listening God pelt him with “Where were you when I.....” questions.
But this we can know is true, from God’s word, which is absolutely true: There is a light/dark, day/night cycle; there exists a tangible structure called a firmament, which separates the waters above from the waters below (creating essentially a pressurized bubble of air unknowingly high, stretching to the ends of he earth) and there are three kinds of luminaries (lights) in the sky that each have their own “glory”.and purpose, within this enclosed system, but also at unknown heights.
Anyone claiming to know specifics of this system beyond what can be known from scripture, that can not be measured and tested... is lying or just repeating false knowledge.
Danny Faulkner would have you believe that the ground God revealed from the waters on Day Three, is in the shape of a spinning sphere, orbiting the sun in a 10^-17 Torr “near perfect vacuum”. That sun, is 93,000,000 miles away and the other wandering stars we calla planeTs are also orbiting the sun in a perfect plane, many more millions of miles away. There are more specific claims of the Heliocentric philosophy. I know them because I studied them and tried to find out how those claims were scientifically validated. (Hint: They aren’t.)
If I can know that Heliocentrism is pseudoscience, how is it that educated people like Danny Faulkner don’t know? Could they all be appealing to their credentials and authority figures to whom they paid a great deal of money to receive their own credentials? Memorize books well enough, then you too can be authorized to teach others to memorize books. Like the straw man in the Wizard of Oz, the only difference between being stupid one day and stupid the next, was a piece of rolled up paper... a ‘sheep skin’ to be ironic about it.
And while we’re on interesting analogies; the irony isn’t lost on me that Danny Faulkner offers nothing but fallacious Straw Man arguments and appeals to the consensus of his authority and others. All in order to cast the entire “flat earth” stereotype as a godless cult, born from the internet.
Let us all take to heart, the sentiment of Romans 3:4 (Let God be true, and all men, liars.)
The heliocentric theosophy rivals evolution for its use of uncomprehendable numbers and concepts that violate laws of nature. Trillions of miles is only one absurd concept. For example: One trillion seconds is 31,000 years! If you traveled one mile per second, it would take 31,000 years to go 1/25th of the distance to the closest star. Now try to imagine... how big do you think a star or planet would have to be, in order to be able to see it 25 trillion miles away with your eyes?
1). Thank you, Mischelle for continuing to take the time to provide a logical, rational, and thoughtful critique of this book.
2). Your opening paragraph was fantastic. I, too, cannot wrap my mind around how people who claim to be of the truth—and who use Scripture to substantiate that truth—can so easily toss out that same Scripture in order to promote lies. It is utterly perplexing.
3). To answer your question as to why Faulkner may be employing the use of straw man arguments in his book, I believe you already answered your own question earlier in the article when you wrote that “it is nearly impossible for globe proponent[s] to present a true and accurate FE model because it would be too telling. This forces globe proponents to use straw men and fallacious arguments, hoping the reader/listener will not verify the facts . . . .”
4). Keep up the great work. I look forward to each new installment with child-like glee.
I have been wondering about whether the sun and moon are above or below the firmament. What is the evidence that they are below it, Biblical reference?
First, God created the firmament on Day Two of creation (Genesis 1:6-8). Then, He created the sun, moon, and stars on Day Four of creation and placed them in the firmament of heaven (Genesis 1:14-19). So we can know for sure the luminaries are not above the firmament. I know some people argue that the stars seem to shine through water, therefore they must be above the firmament. This doesn't agree with the testimony of Scripture. However, I believe there is evidence for a superfluid to exist under the firmament, which could explain why the stars appear like reflections of water.
Psalm 19:4-5 provides evidence that the sun is under the firmament, not embedded in it. "In them [the heavens] He [God] has set a tabernacle [firmament] for the sun,
Which is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber."
Since God testifies in Genesis that the luminaries are placed in the firmament, the sun, moon, and stars are all in the same tent. When a person is inside a tabernacle or tent, they are under it not embedded in the material. This is how I understand the Scriptures. Hope that helps.
Also a tent always has a level ground, therefore implying the earth is flat, level and a plain. Plain to see😇🙏😇
Thank you 🙏
Agree with that answer by Mischelle. In scripture we see the Firmament is described as “strong as molten metal, as a looking glass” and the root word ‘raqia’ means to beat or stamp out. So the Firmament is the solid dome and the “waters above” from Psalm 148:4 are below this dome and above the aether “atmosphere”. We know amateur rockets hit this water at 74 miles yet the sun and moon are approximately 2-3k miles high as proven with sextant measurements. Check out David wardlaw Scott’s book TERRA FIRMA, and Samuel Robatham’s Zetetic Cosmogony, and another great book is Zetetic Astronomy by Thomas Winship. They provide all the empirical data that refutes all the modern Scientism. Keep in touch as this is my area of interest too and I continue to ponder these great questions and mysteries.
That’s interesting. I hadn’t considered the waters above the firmament as under the firmament. I lean toward a superfluid under and a sea of water above, especially since at the flood, God opened the windows of heaven.
There is so much mystery on this topic since we have so little scriptural information regarding the specifics of the firmament. We know Ezekiel and other prophets describe the firmament as crystaline and blue. “Sea of glass” in revelation 4 and 15 give us a clue that a firm foundation exists. As you stated about the heavens opening and the water flooded through earth, do you believe that water emptied so that now all the water left is what provides a barrier (depicted when rockets either scrape along or impact directly into this region—such as operation Dominic and Fishbowl)? Zen Garcia speaks of a constant flow of water recycling from below earth to the heavens that provides for our weather. I’m rather skeptical about that theory but something supernatural causes our weather opposed to the modern belief in a hydrological cycle
I believe there are still waters above the firmament based on Psalm 148:4. I lean toward the superfluid ceiling under the firmament as the same substance that makes the solid firmament. As you mentioned, there’s much we do not know.
“And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.”
Genesis 1:3-5 KJV
God created light, then He divided the light from the darkness. The light was called Day, and the darkness was called Night. The first day of creation concluded with the first cycle of night to day. With this first act... TIME began. This day/night cycle continued for three more days, at which point the sun, moon and stars were created, and placed “in” the firmament, which was created on Day Two.
By a simple reading of scripture, it seems the day/night (light/darkness) cycle is independent of both the firmament, and the luminaries. Like much of creation, the mechanisms and processes God employs are a mystery. We can be sure, though, that all of creation operates in accordance with the laws of nature and laws of logic. Speculating whether the firmament moves or just APPEARS to move or doesn’t move at all, is probably a foolish endeavor. Ask Job how he felt after listening God pelt him with “Where were you when I.....” questions.
But this we can know is true, from God’s word, which is absolutely true: There is a light/dark, day/night cycle; there exists a tangible structure called a firmament, which separates the waters above from the waters below (creating essentially a pressurized bubble of air unknowingly high, stretching to the ends of he earth) and there are three kinds of luminaries (lights) in the sky that each have their own “glory”.and purpose, within this enclosed system, but also at unknown heights.
Anyone claiming to know specifics of this system beyond what can be known from scripture, that can not be measured and tested... is lying or just repeating false knowledge.
Danny Faulkner would have you believe that the ground God revealed from the waters on Day Three, is in the shape of a spinning sphere, orbiting the sun in a 10^-17 Torr “near perfect vacuum”. That sun, is 93,000,000 miles away and the other wandering stars we calla planeTs are also orbiting the sun in a perfect plane, many more millions of miles away. There are more specific claims of the Heliocentric philosophy. I know them because I studied them and tried to find out how those claims were scientifically validated. (Hint: They aren’t.)
If I can know that Heliocentrism is pseudoscience, how is it that educated people like Danny Faulkner don’t know? Could they all be appealing to their credentials and authority figures to whom they paid a great deal of money to receive their own credentials? Memorize books well enough, then you too can be authorized to teach others to memorize books. Like the straw man in the Wizard of Oz, the only difference between being stupid one day and stupid the next, was a piece of rolled up paper... a ‘sheep skin’ to be ironic about it.
And while we’re on interesting analogies; the irony isn’t lost on me that Danny Faulkner offers nothing but fallacious Straw Man arguments and appeals to the consensus of his authority and others. All in order to cast the entire “flat earth” stereotype as a godless cult, born from the internet.
Let us all take to heart, the sentiment of Romans 3:4 (Let God be true, and all men, liars.)
The heliocentric theosophy rivals evolution for its use of uncomprehendable numbers and concepts that violate laws of nature. Trillions of miles is only one absurd concept. For example: One trillion seconds is 31,000 years! If you traveled one mile per second, it would take 31,000 years to go 1/25th of the distance to the closest star. Now try to imagine... how big do you think a star or planet would have to be, in order to be able to see it 25 trillion miles away with your eyes?
I’ll wait for the Penney to drop.
1). Thank you, Mischelle for continuing to take the time to provide a logical, rational, and thoughtful critique of this book.
2). Your opening paragraph was fantastic. I, too, cannot wrap my mind around how people who claim to be of the truth—and who use Scripture to substantiate that truth—can so easily toss out that same Scripture in order to promote lies. It is utterly perplexing.
3). To answer your question as to why Faulkner may be employing the use of straw man arguments in his book, I believe you already answered your own question earlier in the article when you wrote that “it is nearly impossible for globe proponent[s] to present a true and accurate FE model because it would be too telling. This forces globe proponents to use straw men and fallacious arguments, hoping the reader/listener will not verify the facts . . . .”
4). Keep up the great work. I look forward to each new installment with child-like glee.
Thank you for a thoughtful response. It’s hard to understand how/why a Christian organization could justify such tactics. Very disheartening.
They “deny the truth in unrighteousness.”
Comprehensive and thorough. Keep up the great work.
Thank you!